May 22, 2017, 12:17:56 PM

Author Topic: Flint knapping  (Read 34127 times)

Offline Swede

  • OWNER
  • Administrator
  • Survivorman
  • *********
  • Posts: 21972
Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #100 on: December 17, 2007, 12:47:30 PM »
Those points are mostly for show Ant. Your correct on a useful working point. The thinner you can make the working end the better. It takes less force for penatration.

Actually the little brown one has the flat glass still there. I try to make the entire surface chipped in the just for show pieces. If you were just trying to produce a working point actually the brown point is more desirable.

Theres another concept in points for small game is the blunt force type. For rabbits a blunt point can be just as deadly from the force of the impact.
I hope the war on terror goes better then the war on drugs and the war on poverty
If you dont care where you are your never lost
Im a survivor not a victim
Its not who I am but what I do that defines me.

Offline antagonizer

  • Moderator
  • Master Tracker
  • *********
  • Posts: 1064
Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #101 on: December 17, 2007, 02:56:00 PM »
Here ya go Swede. Raw stubborness  prevails and I finally made a hook.  It's still in need of a bit of work, I.E. a barb on the end, but the raw shape is there. So it is possible, but the question is "is it worth it?" I don't think so.


Now, here's one for ya that I just came across today.  I had a bunch of pieces of train slag laying around the house. If you don't know what that is, it's a sort of iron oxide stone, like man made hematite, that's created from the friction of the wheels on the tracks, and collects on the bottom of train, that eventually falls off and mixes with the track ballast.  Can't miss it. Looks like shiny lava rock.  Well, it turns out that this stuff knapps up just like a quality piece of fling and finishes off with a purty metallic sheen to boot.  Here's a piece I've been messing with including some of the flakes that come off of it.  Not the best specimen to start with, but I'll take a trip down to the train yards some time this week for some better quality shards.

Anyway, can't find any flint? Now you have a substitute;

"Aut Viam Invenium Aut Faciam"  - Hannibal of Carthage

"Memento Te Esse Mortalum" - Epitaph on gravestone in Salem Mass.

Offline Swede

  • OWNER
  • Administrator
  • Survivorman
  • *********
  • Posts: 21972
Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #102 on: December 17, 2007, 03:45:50 PM »
The hook looks pretty good actually might work  you might try to pressure flake with a copper wire moving from side to side to deepen the curve a little more but it might get too weak.

I hope the war on terror goes better then the war on drugs and the war on poverty
If you dont care where you are your never lost
Im a survivor not a victim
Its not who I am but what I do that defines me.

Offline Watcherofthewoods

  • Survivorman
  • *********
  • Posts: 11586
Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #103 on: December 17, 2007, 04:41:04 PM »
Looks great Ant, I need to give this a try, just need the tools.
Complain less, breathe more.

It isn't until man is quiet that nature will speak.

In the silence and solitude of the night is when you truely find yourself.

Offline antagonizer

  • Moderator
  • Master Tracker
  • *********
  • Posts: 1064
Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #104 on: December 17, 2007, 04:56:06 PM »
The hook looks pretty good actually might work  you might try to pressure flake with a copper wire moving from side to side to deepen the curve a little more but it might get too weak.


LOL!! Took all my nerve just to get it that deep.  I broke half a dozen flakes before this one, so as I said, it's a bit impractical for survival.  I'd much rather use a soda can tab.   :yes:

I did learn something in the process though. At first I was attacking it from the side, then changing my angle to try to form the hook.  I realized that this left the hook and post too thin, where additional flaking would cause it to snap.  I figured if you channel it out in a 'U' shape, then reduce th profile of the hook, you could narrow it's width when it was closer to completion. Lessened the likelyhood of a lost piece.
"Aut Viam Invenium Aut Faciam"  - Hannibal of Carthage

"Memento Te Esse Mortalum" - Epitaph on gravestone in Salem Mass.

Offline antagonizer

  • Moderator
  • Master Tracker
  • *********
  • Posts: 1064
Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #105 on: December 17, 2007, 04:57:51 PM »
Think I'll stop this hook where it is, and start a new one.  Then it won't hurt so much when I ruin it.
"Aut Viam Invenium Aut Faciam"  - Hannibal of Carthage

"Memento Te Esse Mortalum" - Epitaph on gravestone in Salem Mass.

Offline Machine

  • Moderator Admin
  • Survivalist
  • *********
  • Posts: 2270
Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #106 on: December 27, 2007, 05:47:32 PM »
Well. I tried my hand at flint knapping today.  I guess you can say.....I have a LONG way to go.  I made 3 points.  Thes two are not totally done.  They are sharp enough that they would hurt going in.  But they need WORK!  The third one....that was the nicest one outta all of them.  I kept messing and CRACK!  Right in half.  That stunk.  Anyway.  Swede, critique away......I want to know what I did wrong....and if anything is right. 

(My camera just didn't want to focus on them, but you get the idea)



Campfire Chat ADVICE: PLEASE refrain from extended discussion that pertains to topics posted in other forums. Discussion of those specific topics should be posted in their respective topic threads so all members can see, and for later reference. Replies breaking this rule will be copied or moved. Lets not turn this forum in a simple chatroom.

Offline Swede

  • OWNER
  • Administrator
  • Survivorman
  • *********
  • Posts: 21972
Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #107 on: December 27, 2007, 06:36:26 PM »
Right off the bat the material you using is challanging to say the least. Your not going to get it to work like you would like.

You said you were getting close and you broke it. It would seem you were striking instead of pressure flaking.

Let me take your picture and Ill be right back.
I hope the war on terror goes better then the war on drugs and the war on poverty
If you dont care where you are your never lost
Im a survivor not a victim
Its not who I am but what I do that defines me.

Offline Swede

  • OWNER
  • Administrator
  • Survivorman
  • *********
  • Posts: 21972
Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #108 on: December 27, 2007, 06:48:58 PM »


All the arrows are pointing to areas where pressure flaking with a small point copper wire in a dowel rod. Hold the point down on your vinal pad with your fingers and push in and down with your other hand on those places where the point needs trimming. Try to get tiny chips to smooth the edges while creating a saw like edge. Try abrading the edges with sand stone or similier rock to grind off some material like sharpening a knife.

This will thin the piece some and help hold the pressure flaker from slipping off the material. Where you intend to tie the piece on the shaft try to deepen the grove to make the "ears" of the point. There pretty good as is but it will improve the looks of the piece if their a little deeper.

Over all not bad and would work in a pinch.  :thumbup:
I hope the war on terror goes better then the war on drugs and the war on poverty
If you dont care where you are your never lost
Im a survivor not a victim
Its not who I am but what I do that defines me.

Offline Machine

  • Moderator Admin
  • Survivalist
  • *********
  • Posts: 2270
Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #109 on: December 27, 2007, 06:50:24 PM »
What do you mean the material?  Those are "Swede" flakes. 

Man...you are good.  I had one edge I was having trouble with....so I hit it....thinking I could knock just that one little piece off.  Lesson learned.  Don't try to rush......

Campfire Chat ADVICE: PLEASE refrain from extended discussion that pertains to topics posted in other forums. Discussion of those specific topics should be posted in their respective topic threads so all members can see, and for later reference. Replies breaking this rule will be copied or moved. Lets not turn this forum in a simple chatroom.

Offline Machine

  • Moderator Admin
  • Survivalist
  • *********
  • Posts: 2270
Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #110 on: December 27, 2007, 06:52:56 PM »
Ok...this opens up a bunch of questions.  First.  What do you use for copper wire.  All I had was 10.  After a while it was bending and getting on my nerves.  What would be stronger?  Basically, I did all this with a hammer and that wire pressure flaker.  That was all I had around. I need better tools.  For sure. 
Campfire Chat ADVICE: PLEASE refrain from extended discussion that pertains to topics posted in other forums. Discussion of those specific topics should be posted in their respective topic threads so all members can see, and for later reference. Replies breaking this rule will be copied or moved. Lets not turn this forum in a simple chatroom.

Offline Machine

  • Moderator Admin
  • Survivalist
  • *********
  • Posts: 2270
Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #111 on: December 27, 2007, 06:54:22 PM »
Swede. Thanks for the info. You definitely have this stuff down.  I appreciate all the help.
Campfire Chat ADVICE: PLEASE refrain from extended discussion that pertains to topics posted in other forums. Discussion of those specific topics should be posted in their respective topic threads so all members can see, and for later reference. Replies breaking this rule will be copied or moved. Lets not turn this forum in a simple chatroom.

Offline Swede

  • OWNER
  • Administrator
  • Survivorman
  • *********
  • Posts: 21972
Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #112 on: December 27, 2007, 07:00:34 PM »
Copper and deer antler are soft. It helps to hold onto the material instead of slipping off. This is why you abraid or roughing up the edges. Leave the copper wire close to the dowl. You only need a half inch or so sticking out. Push in rather than down. You will feel the force in your arms and sholders if your doing it right. If I work continually on a piece or pieces I will be sweating.

If you were to put your hands together and push in you will feel the right motion to pressure flake.
I hope the war on terror goes better then the war on drugs and the war on poverty
If you dont care where you are your never lost
Im a survivor not a victim
Its not who I am but what I do that defines me.

Offline Machine

  • Moderator Admin
  • Survivalist
  • *********
  • Posts: 2270
Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #113 on: December 27, 2007, 07:03:50 PM »
LOL.  You describe it perfectly.  My shoulder, arm and hand are KILLING ME!  I gotta work on a better tool set.  This was just something I decided to try today. So I was scrounging around the house to see what I could make.  It is like anything else. I am sure it will take time and practice. 

In your video (I think) you used a screw in the dowel.  Is that for removing bigger areas?  How do you keep the wire from bending? 
Campfire Chat ADVICE: PLEASE refrain from extended discussion that pertains to topics posted in other forums. Discussion of those specific topics should be posted in their respective topic threads so all members can see, and for later reference. Replies breaking this rule will be copied or moved. Lets not turn this forum in a simple chatroom.

Offline Swede

  • OWNER
  • Administrator
  • Survivorman
  • *********
  • Posts: 21972
Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #114 on: December 27, 2007, 07:15:52 PM »
That was a brass screw that I cut off and rounded on the end to kind of roll as Im pushing in. Its not any tool that I've seen any one use but it works for me.

OK this may sound silly but this is what works for me also. Its a form of concentration. Focus your energy on the spot your working. Its a life force sort of. Bring the form out of the stone. Feel the piece continually turning in you fingers back and forth and feel the spot you want to work. Get a picture in your mind as to what you want. Its a spiritual thing.

Flint knappers have said its a process of bringing the piece out of the stone. I can see how the Native Americans felt as they worked the stone.

There comes a point sometimes when you realize its not going to work like you want. Set it aside and do another. You may come back to it later and try some more.
I hope the war on terror goes better then the war on drugs and the war on poverty
If you dont care where you are your never lost
Im a survivor not a victim
Its not who I am but what I do that defines me.

Offline Machine

  • Moderator Admin
  • Survivalist
  • *********
  • Posts: 2270
Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #115 on: December 27, 2007, 08:03:36 PM »
Let the "bush" teach you.  No different with flint knapping.  I see what you are saying.  Thanks!
Campfire Chat ADVICE: PLEASE refrain from extended discussion that pertains to topics posted in other forums. Discussion of those specific topics should be posted in their respective topic threads so all members can see, and for later reference. Replies breaking this rule will be copied or moved. Lets not turn this forum in a simple chatroom.

Offline antagonizer

  • Moderator
  • Master Tracker
  • *********
  • Posts: 1064
Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #116 on: December 27, 2007, 08:41:11 PM »
The man speaks the truth. As Swede says, there's a vibe you get when you know that if you put to much pressure on one spot, or attack a 'hitch' to agressively that you could lose the piece.  I learned to stop alot and study the piece I'm working on. Like chess, know what I'm going to to 3 steps ahead.

I had a teacher ask me this; "Do you know the difference between an expert and a professional?"
No, I said.
He replied, "An expert comes across a problem and knows how to fix it. A professional knows what the problem will be and how to avoid it"

Those pieces you've got are a fantastic start! Better than I did when Swede first sent me my flint. Keep it up and study the sample piece I know he sent you. It made all the difference for me.
"Aut Viam Invenium Aut Faciam"  - Hannibal of Carthage

"Memento Te Esse Mortalum" - Epitaph on gravestone in Salem Mass.

Offline Watcherofthewoods

  • Survivorman
  • *********
  • Posts: 11586
Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #117 on: December 27, 2007, 08:43:17 PM »


Here is my antler I'm going to use, one second and I'll go get pictures of the flint.
Complain less, breathe more.

It isn't until man is quiet that nature will speak.

In the silence and solitude of the night is when you truely find yourself.

Offline Watcherofthewoods

  • Survivorman
  • *********
  • Posts: 11586
Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #118 on: December 27, 2007, 08:53:44 PM »
Complain less, breathe more.

It isn't until man is quiet that nature will speak.

In the silence and solitude of the night is when you truely find yourself.

Offline Machine

  • Moderator Admin
  • Survivalist
  • *********
  • Posts: 2270
Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #119 on: January 03, 2008, 04:44:41 PM »
Ok, I have been working a little more on a couple points.  Here they are.  The ones on the left are my new ones.  The ones on the right are the old ones.  It is very hard to type right now, my hands are killing me.  OK, critique away. 



Here are my new points by themselves.



Swede how do I make them thinner (not more narrow)?  I can get a shape better now, but thinning them out.....is my problem. My tools seem to slip alot too.  Kinda just scratching the stone.  They don't dig in. 
Campfire Chat ADVICE: PLEASE refrain from extended discussion that pertains to topics posted in other forums. Discussion of those specific topics should be posted in their respective topic threads so all members can see, and for later reference. Replies breaking this rule will be copied or moved. Lets not turn this forum in a simple chatroom.