August 19, 2017, 12:32:48 AM

Author Topic: Flint knapping  (Read 34383 times)

Offline Watcherofthewoods

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Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #80 on: December 14, 2007, 04:25:36 PM »
Looks good!
Complain less, breathe more.

It isn't until man is quiet that nature will speak.

In the silence and solitude of the night is when you truely find yourself.

Offline Swede

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Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #81 on: December 14, 2007, 06:38:39 PM »


The red arrows show where some abrading with sand stone or other rough stone to sharpen the edges.

The blue shows how you will need to fasten the point to the shaft.

The yellow are good useable pieces. I would however pressure chip a couple of notches on the upper yellow arrow to give yourself a way to fasten the piece to the shaft.

Very good effort and all of them will work in a survival situation. Remember sharp edges the more the better. The animal will have to bleed to death so the deeper the cut the more the bleed.

Excellent start    :thumbup:
I hope the war on terror goes better then the war on drugs and the war on poverty
If you dont care where you are your never lost
Im a survivor not a victim
Its not who I am but what I do that defines me.

Offline antagonizer

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Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #82 on: December 14, 2007, 06:48:39 PM »


The red arrows show where some abrading with sand stone or other rough stone to sharpen the edges.

The blue shows how you will need to fasten the point to the shaft.

The yellow are good useable pieces. I would however pressure chip a couple of notches on the upper yellow arrow to give yourself a way to fasten the piece to the shaft.

Very good effort and all of them will work in a survival situation. Remember sharp edges the more the better. The animal will have to bleed to death so the deeper the cut the more the bleed.

Excellent start    :thumbup:

Great advice!  On the one you marked in blue, would it be a good idea to burrough a couple of knotches on the edge of the blade to 'recess' the bindings, where the top of the blue lines end? I figure that would work on the right yellow one, and 3 of the 4 red ones that aren't knotched? I think it's called a 'bird point'.
"Aut Viam Invenium Aut Faciam"  - Hannibal of Carthage

"Memento Te Esse Mortalum" - Epitaph on gravestone in Salem Mass.

Offline Swede

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Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #83 on: December 14, 2007, 07:20:28 PM »
The blue binding would be a good idea to try for a notch. It would hide the binding better. It doesnt take much to hold the point onto the shaft as it need only stay until it hits the target. The thinner the piece the better the penatration. As I posted for Machine small points are more useful for survival because we wont be hunting deer or wild pigs. Mostly rabbits or squirrels. A small point will work for these animals.

There is some evidence that ancient man layed or stood in trees above the trail and dropped on the animal as he walked under him driving the spear into the rib cage. Internal bleeding in the lung will eventually kill the animal. They might have sent the dogs on the trail to run the wonded animal down.

I cant wait to see that video   :woot:
I hope the war on terror goes better then the war on drugs and the war on poverty
If you dont care where you are your never lost
Im a survivor not a victim
Its not who I am but what I do that defines me.

Offline Swede

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Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #84 on: December 15, 2007, 09:02:41 PM »
I thought I would try one of Ants videos and demonstrate pressure flaking. My dainty fingers get in the way once in awhile and the finished product needs a little more tweaking but here it is from start to finish>

Two basic tools I used. The bigger one has a brass screw rounded off. I like it for working the edges. The smaller dowl has copper wire.

i

http://www.mydeo.com/videodownload.asp?YID=2505&CID=150537
I hope the war on terror goes better then the war on drugs and the war on poverty
If you dont care where you are your never lost
Im a survivor not a victim
Its not who I am but what I do that defines me.

Offline Watcherofthewoods

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Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #85 on: December 16, 2007, 11:29:17 AM »
My my, look at those little tiny fingers :scared:
Complain less, breathe more.

It isn't until man is quiet that nature will speak.

In the silence and solitude of the night is when you truely find yourself.

Offline Swede

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Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #86 on: December 16, 2007, 12:52:24 PM »
I hope the war on terror goes better then the war on drugs and the war on poverty
If you dont care where you are your never lost
Im a survivor not a victim
Its not who I am but what I do that defines me.

Offline antagonizer

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Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #87 on: December 16, 2007, 05:32:03 PM »
I can't seem to get it to play Swede. A window pops up, then closes immediately.  Is there a page link that I can go to? It may be my player.
"Aut Viam Invenium Aut Faciam"  - Hannibal of Carthage

"Memento Te Esse Mortalum" - Epitaph on gravestone in Salem Mass.

Offline Swede

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Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #88 on: December 16, 2007, 05:43:49 PM »
I hope the war on terror goes better then the war on drugs and the war on poverty
If you dont care where you are your never lost
Im a survivor not a victim
Its not who I am but what I do that defines me.

Offline antagonizer

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Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #89 on: December 16, 2007, 06:17:16 PM »
It keeps trying to open my media player up, but comes up as a file it can't play.  I'll try again later.
"Aut Viam Invenium Aut Faciam"  - Hannibal of Carthage

"Memento Te Esse Mortalum" - Epitaph on gravestone in Salem Mass.

Offline Swede

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I hope the war on terror goes better then the war on drugs and the war on poverty
If you dont care where you are your never lost
Im a survivor not a victim
Its not who I am but what I do that defines me.

Offline antagonizer

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Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #91 on: December 17, 2007, 12:55:56 AM »
Beautiful demo.

1) are you working at a table, and do you recommend that?
2) I like the tool you were using and actually brings up a point. I always wondered what was the reason that copper is suggested?  For my part, I notice that it stains the flint whereas steel doesn't.  I've got a 3/16 brass rod, would that work? Right now, I'm mostly using sharpened antler tips.
3) The way I'm seeing it, you use the heavy steel tip for course flaking, then the finer copper to 'sharpen' the point. Is that right?
4) I find that I use the billet 90% of the time, and only really finish up with the flaking tools by burroughing channels for hafting.  I think I need to put more emphasis on flaking.
"Aut Viam Invenium Aut Faciam"  - Hannibal of Carthage

"Memento Te Esse Mortalum" - Epitaph on gravestone in Salem Mass.

Offline Machine

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Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #92 on: December 17, 2007, 07:16:53 AM »
Very cool video Swede.  Thanks for posting that.  It is better to see someone doing it and not just reading about it.  That is a huge help. 
Campfire Chat ADVICE: PLEASE refrain from extended discussion that pertains to topics posted in other forums. Discussion of those specific topics should be posted in their respective topic threads so all members can see, and for later reference. Replies breaking this rule will be copied or moved. Lets not turn this forum in a simple chatroom.

Offline Swede

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Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #93 on: December 17, 2007, 09:27:17 AM »
The soft metal of copper resembles the soft material in antler. The idea is for the soft material to hold onto the flint to sort of "pull" off the chip. Also hard metal will more likely shatter the piece. It will leave marks on the flint but unless you are trying to hide the fact that they are home made dont worry about the marks. They can be abraided or rubbed off.

I work on a table but triditional knappers work on their knee. Its too difficult for me to work in that position. I use a folded piece of vinal for the spring like in your calf of your leg. This gets you away from working off a solid surface. Some put vinal over a thick book for a table.

I use the brass to work edges in pressure flaking. Remember the more you work an edge the thicker it will get as you are removing material. The flaking I demonstrated only works on thin chips. As the Native Americans got more and more into bow and arrow and away from atl atl and spear the smaller the points became. The smaller they are the better the penatration and thats what is important. As I have mentioned rabbits and small game are easier and more plentiful and deer are less likely hunted is a survival situation.

Yes the small copper tool is for sharpening the cutting edge and making serrated edges. You notice the chips flying during this pressure flaking process.

I should warn you that the flint I sent you has been frozen and dried out making it difficult to work with. The Native Americans quarried their material in the summer months right from chert outcrops in streams. It may seem impossible but flint actually has water within the stone when it first comes out of the ground. When left out over time and winter the freezing and thawing fractures the stone. Some knappers will leave their flint in buckets of water.

Its all in the quality of the stone itself. Think glass or glassy material. In fact plate glass is a good material to practice on and in a survival situation glass will work for a useable point and will be easier to come by. Ive seen some nice points made from the bottom of bottles.

Abrading ( the roughing up of the surface) is used to keep the billett from just slipping off the slick material. Striking is more in then down much like the striking on flint and steel fire starting. This applies the force inward to thin the material not just remove material from the edges.

Practice practice practice. It will come to you.
I hope the war on terror goes better then the war on drugs and the war on poverty
If you dont care where you are your never lost
Im a survivor not a victim
Its not who I am but what I do that defines me.

Offline antagonizer

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Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #94 on: December 17, 2007, 10:19:13 AM »
I've thrown a few pieces into a pot of water, just to see the difference. Do you think baking would help?

Ever knap a fish hook? I saw Les Stroud do it in one of his vids, but I can't seem to get it to work. Broke 6 out of 6 pieces. Honestly, I can't find a single flint hook in the fossil records, but I assume it can be done.
"Aut Viam Invenium Aut Faciam"  - Hannibal of Carthage

"Memento Te Esse Mortalum" - Epitaph on gravestone in Salem Mass.

Offline Swede

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Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #95 on: December 17, 2007, 10:36:13 AM »
The fish hook thing was laughable. No way was he going to make one with the tools he had plus he broke the bottle he needed later to carry drinking water and ended up useing his boat paddle.    :nono:

A wooden one shaped like a check mark is what a lot of natives used. Lester couldnt catch a fish if his life depened on it. That piece of plastic would have worked better. Carve one out and maybe heated it over the fire a little to harden it.

The best thing would have been the neck of the bottle at the top where the circle is already made.

Baking would make it worse. Concentrate on pressure flaking for now until you can get some better material. Again try to find some plate glass.

Sometimes I think Les gets his ideas from reading posts in forums. I know Bow tries to give him ideas. Woodsman also gives him some ideas. Sitting in a survival camp isnt the place to try flint knapping unless you have learned the skill. Its like a blind man feeling for a light switch------its just a waste of time.
I hope the war on terror goes better then the war on drugs and the war on poverty
If you dont care where you are your never lost
Im a survivor not a victim
Its not who I am but what I do that defines me.

Offline Swede

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Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #96 on: December 17, 2007, 11:01:22 AM »
Here are some examples Ive made from other materials>

From left to right plate galss, cobalt blue glass, obsidian, and a small piece of brown glass I found.>

I hope the war on terror goes better then the war on drugs and the war on poverty
If you dont care where you are your never lost
Im a survivor not a victim
Its not who I am but what I do that defines me.

Offline Swede

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Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #97 on: December 17, 2007, 11:10:14 AM »
Heres a website about ancient hooks>

http://www.mustad.no/abouthooks/h_history.php
I hope the war on terror goes better then the war on drugs and the war on poverty
If you dont care where you are your never lost
Im a survivor not a victim
Its not who I am but what I do that defines me.

Offline Swede

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Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #98 on: December 17, 2007, 11:36:09 AM »
Heres a web site with Mississippian points. These are examples of actual bow and arrow points instead of spear points. These are some of the latest points made or youngest made up until the final days of ethnic clensing Americans dont like to admit.

http://www.webdyer.com/artifacts_fossils/points06.htm
I hope the war on terror goes better then the war on drugs and the war on poverty
If you dont care where you are your never lost
Im a survivor not a victim
Its not who I am but what I do that defines me.

Offline antagonizer

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Re: Flint knapping
« Reply #99 on: December 17, 2007, 12:15:58 PM »
That's a good link.  I was going to make hook carving and fishing one of my next videos, when the snow melts.  As a kid I used to make hooks out of alot of things.  Can tabs, bramble thorns, wood etc.  I use to use a 24"x24" minnow net to catch mudpout.  There was someone here who wove a net bag that I wanted to get a tutorial from just for that purpose.

I was hoping to add flint to that.  Oh, well, stick to what you know I suppose.

I'm liking the style of that brown glass point.  I would have thought that leaving the tail ends long like that would have hindered penetration.  I usually knap them shorter.  Does it matter?
"Aut Viam Invenium Aut Faciam"  - Hannibal of Carthage

"Memento Te Esse Mortalum" - Epitaph on gravestone in Salem Mass.